Talk of Life

Thursday, January 26, 2006

VM Episode 2.11: Donut Run

The Donut, he did run. Run, Donut, run. Here are my thoughts on this week's episode of Veronica Mars.

This week's episode was 2.11 - "Donut Run." This episode was highly entertaining with all of the scheming and double-crossing and the always great dialogue and double entendres, but I've seen it three times now and it still has way too many plot holes. And from perusing the fan reaction at TwoP, it seems like a large segment of the audience, if not an outright majority, was completely confused about what actually happened.

One of my favorite things about VM is that it doesn't always connect the dots for the audience on every little plot point and gives us enough information (usually) to connect the dots for ourselves. But this episode had an awful lot of dots to connect and I don't think every plot hole was filled. A lot of viewers were left with a lot of questions afterward, even more so than usual. (Was Logan in on it? No. Was Celeste? No. Who played the tape in Big Bear? Astrid, I think. Why did she dump the tape behind the motel, did she want it to get found? Not sure, but Veronica did seem surprised that the FBI showed up at her house with a search warrant so I would guess that maybe Astrid goofed? I don't know.)

The episode was complicated, that's for sure, but I don't mind complicated convoluted stories if they ultimately make sense on all the main beats of the plot. This one didn't, though, because the entire kidnaping scheme was unnecessary and just made no sense in the end. When Veronica told Keith, "we had to do it," I wanted Keith to say "actually, Veronica, no you didn't. It was a completely boneheaded move and if you had come to me first, I could have helped and we could have sorted it out together." Veronica, you're smart but this kidnaping scheme was all kinds of dumb.

The main problem is that there is no way that Duncan, the biological father who, oh right, just happens to be a billionaire, would not get custody of his own daughter by perfectly legal means. Not in any court in this country. The law overwhelmingly presumes that a child belongs with her biological parent(s), and if she only has one living parent, he gets custody. All Duncan needed to do was get Cliff (or a lawyer of his choice) to file a petition for custody, get a paternity test and that would be that. It might take a few weeks or even months, but he could even file an emergency petition to get temporary custody pending the final resolution - the point is that he had plenty of legal options to get custody before he would have been forced to drastic action like kidnaping the baby and running off to Mexico.

In order for the Mannings to get custody, the burden would be on them to prove that Duncan was an unfit parent. He's a model student and citizen with no criminal record, and oh yeah, he's a billionaire. Just because he has "Type IV" epilepsy would not make him an unfit parent. Plus, most of that stuff about his violent rages wouldn't even come in as evidence because there is no witness to volunteer that information. Who has witnessed his violent "episodes"? Meg was the only witness to to the car-bashing and she's dead. The only other "episode" we know about (iirc) was when Duncan put a chokehold on Jake, and the only witnesses were Jake, Celeste and Logan. I don't see any of them volunteering that information. Carrie Bishop said something about Duncan's being brought to the hospital once, when he was screaming and yelling, but as far as we know, he wasn't violent towards anyone. In any event, there is no evidence that Duncan has physically hurt another human being, and no charges have ever been brought against him.

Yes, Duncan's parents are currently in legal hot water with the whole obstruction of justice charges but I doubt that would even come in as evidence because it's Duncan's fitness as a parent that is at issue, not the Kanes' fitness as grandparents. They did assume Duncan had killed his sister but that's not Duncan's fault that his parents jumped to conclusions. And the Mannings have issues of their own; once a psychologist interviewed Meg's sisters Lizzie and Grace, there would be no way the Mannings would get custody anyway.

[Edited to add: A friend just reminded me of another reason the Mannings wouldn't get custody: they were planning on putting the baby up for adoption! They had already taken steps to have the baby adopted through that religious agency. If Duncan could show that the Mannnings were planning to have the baby adopted, and that they didn't even *want* the baby until Duncan filed a petition for custody, that alone would probably disqualify the Mannings and Duncan would get custody without any problem.]

The writers knew this plot hole existed and they attempted to explain this problem away when Veronica said that Celeste "doesn't want Duncan to adopt because she doesn't want to be a grandmother," but that didn't solve the problem. First, Duncan wouldn't be "adopting" the child because she's his daughter. (I think we can safely assume the DNA test would prove that.) Under the circumstances, the baby hasn't been legally declared his daughter yet (I doubt the Mannings put his name on the birth certificate), but once the DNA test results establish that he is the biological father, he would get presumptive custody of the baby with no "adoption" proceedings required. So Duncan is a dad and Celeste is a grandmother whether she wants to admit it or not.

Second, even if Jake or Celeste objected, Duncan doesn't need their support to file a petition for custody because he's an emancipated minor. (Or he was, he's probably 18 now.) He can hire Cliff on his own. He doesn't need them - but if he were granted custody of the baby, I have a hard time believing Celeste and Jake would turn their backs on him or cut him off financially. They adore him and they would want their grandchild taken care of in proper Kane style.

If I ignore that huge glaring problem with the story, the episode is a lot of fun, but there are also minor problems. Most of the audience didn't have a clue who Astrid was, even though they covered that in the "previouslys." The audience was never shown that Duncan or Veronica had ever established a friendship with her and it was hard to believe she would betray her employer and risk going to jail for two people she barely knew. She is now an accomplice to kidnaping, which is a federal crime. We know she didn't like Celeste, but come on. Why would she help them?

Plus, I know Vinnie van Lowe is a worm and it's been established he has no problem double-crossing his client in a "Vinnie Classic," but there is one problem here: Celeste has an infinite supply of money. Whatever Duncan offered to pay him ($30K), Celeste could easily offer more. So I don't get why Veronica and Duncan felt they could trust slimy Vinnie to help them or keep their secret. Why didn't he just go back to Celeste and tell her that he'd turn over Duncan's whereabouts if she coughed up $50K or so?

Last but not least, how is Duncan going to raise the baby all by himself in a foreign country? Do we even know that Duncan speaks Spanish? And he is going to live for how long on $50K? (He got $80K for the earrings and gave $30K to Vinnie, so doesn't that leave $50K? Or are we to assume that Duncan liquidated his trust fund or something? But that can't be right, because then there would have been no need to sell the earrings, right? So many questions.) That money isn't going to last long and something tells me it's not easy to make a decent living in Mexico. Especially when you're a teenage fugitive on the run from the FBI (like a white teenage boy with a baby wouldn't raise a red flag in any village). Any attempt to contact his parents for money would almost certainly be intercepted by the FBI. So all in all, it seems like a pretty bad plan to me.

Odds and Ends: (Literally!)

I enjoyed the scenes of FBI Agent Xena and Lamb. Good times. All the Lamb stuff was good, and I like that Lamb got a little audience sympathy in this episode when Agent Xena was such a smug bitch to him. Still, Lamb got duped in the end, just like he always does. Heh. I really did enjoy the way that Veronica's scheme worked the FBI agents and Lamb in different ways and how she played them against each other.

The lineup was funny.

I'm glad we got glimpses of Logan and Weevil working together on solving Felix's murder. Liked the fakeout pass in the hall. Logan and Weevil are always double the pleasure, double the fun, although I'm still waiting for those matching capes.

But what the heck was up with Felix and Molly Fitzpatrick? If I understand it correctly, Felix's older brother Gus "The Reaper" Toombs was a drug dealer who disappeared a couple of years ago under mysterious circumstances, presumed dead at the hands of the Fitzpatricks. So why would Felix get involved with the daughter/niece of the dudes who offed his brother? Was Felix embroiled in a scheme of his own to get revenge on the Fitzpatricks? Or was Molly playing him? Or did they genuinely care for each other, in their own version of West Side Story? The plot, it thickens.

Wallace is back. Emo girl. Heh. Obviously the Rashard story will take center stage next week, and I'm all for giving Wallace some attention after his long absence.

Keith rocks. Seriously. I've been annoyed that Veronica has been keeping so much from him this year, and this episode was another example of that. She would have been so much better off if she had told her father the truth about the Mannings, the baby, everything, and Keith could have helped Duncan get custody of the baby legally without resorting to this stupid kidnaping scheme. I loved the scene of his confronting her and I hope she wises up and learns that sometimes father does indeed know best. But I doubt it. Even though the Keith/Veronica relationship is one of my favorite aspects of the whole show, this rift was bound to happen and I can't wait to see how this affects their relationship going forward.

Finally, on the subject of Veronica and Duncan's relationship, I agree with a lot of people out there who hated the fact that they were presented as some sort of great love affair, star-crossed lovers torn apart only by circumstances beyond their control. Duncan was all kinds of boring, and Veronica ignored his maddening tendency to avoid, ignore, and repress. The writers never went to much effort to show us why she loved him in the first place, let alone why she stayed with him so long when he seemed to have the personality of a toaster. I would have preferred it if Veronica had finally woken up to the fact that Duncan is not the perfect boyfriend she always imagined he was, and she broke up with him because she realized that they were not the same people they used to be and that she didn't love him anymore, if in fact she ever did.

On the other hand, I was still sort of moved by their goodbye scene, even though I'm not all that fond of Duncan. I never had any problem with Teddy Dunn and I always wanted the writers to give Duncan more to do, so it was a nice send-off for his character (if indeed he's gone for good, which appears to be the case). The fortune cookie note was actually surprisingly touching (and the Lost numbers were a nice touch, heh).

But in the end, Veronica didn't return his "I love you," and that has to be significant. So even with the fortune cookie note, I don't think Duncan has been set up as Veronica's great love of her life that she will never get over. At least I don't see it that way. It's interesting that the writers have had both Logan and Duncan profess their love to Veronica, but she didn't return the sentiment on either occasion. Hmm.

Episode Grade: B+

Even though I had major issues with the entire premise of the kidnaping plot, the episode was still hugely entertaining with some great moments. So long as I don't think about it too hard afterwards. I know a lot of people hated it because of the Donut resolution (and for many other reasons), but I still liked it despite the huge problems I had with it.

Favorite lines (tie):
You always come.
Time to fake the donut.


Oh, Logan. Your screen time was short this week, but you always make the most of it.

Tuesday, January 24, 2006

Questions for Jason Dohring?

Give Me My Remote, a TV Blog, has scheduled an interview with Jason Dohring and is asking for questions from fans:

Here's a few hints...
- Remember that he's not going to be giving us spoilers...they never do
- I'm not asking him anyting about Scientology, so don't go there...lol
- Make sure your questions are unique, and something Jason hasn't answered 150 times (and you already know the answer to)
- The best questions are those about the show, the cast, his experience on VM, and about his career.


So if you wanted to ask Jason a question in Austin but didn't get to, now is your chance.

The CW: Good news for Veronica?

For everybody freaking out about the merger of UPN and the WB and what the new CW network might mean for Veronica Mars, here is some good news: The president of CBS Les Moonves held a conference call this afternoon to discuss the merger and said, "The idea of putting Gilmore Girls with Veronica Mars is a dream come true for Dawn (Ostroff, head of UPN). She finally has a lead-in that works for that show."

I would say that sounds like VM is almost certainly coming back for a third season, with GG as the likely lead-in. Dawn Ostroff will be head of programming for the new network and if putting GG with VM is a "dream come true" for her, that is good news for VM indeed.

Monday, January 23, 2006

When the dog bites, when the bee stings

After Wednesday's episode of Veronica Mars, we will be at the halfway point for Season Two. (Wow, already?)

truemyth wants to know your favorite things about season two. If you have any favorite moments from S2, go forth and share.

Sunday, January 22, 2006

Veronica Marsathon, Part II

So, you guys? There was this awesome Veronica Mars event in Austin at the Alamo Drafthouse last weekend! Maybe you heard about it? (Click for photos and more photos and lots of fan photos from the autograph sessions.)

On to the Q&A portion of the evening. These will be in no particular order, although I tried to put Saturday's questions before Sunday's, combining answers when there was overlap. I'm sure I left a lot out, and I will be editing this to add new stuff in when I remember (or get reminded). Obviously everything is paraphrased, because who takes shorthand nowadays? And if you were sitting just a few feet away from Jason Dohring (or Kristen Bell), trust me, taking detailed notes would not be high on the list of priorities. I was sitting in the second row, and they were both almost directly in front of me, and both of them looked me quizzically a couple of times when I was jotting stuff down.

At some point fairly early in the Q&A on Saturday, the flea gifts and the T-shirts were presented to RT and the cast. Read spectralbovine's report for more on that. RT & the cast seemed genuinely touched by the gifts and MM even put his "Biggest Dick Without a P.I. License" t-shirt on as soon as the Q&A was over so he would be wearing it for the autograph session. (And I saw him change into it, yes I did, you read right -- 'tis a pity I didn't have a camera handy.)

I have no idea what the first question was, but I know we got to the censor stuff before too long. The conflicts with UPN/CBS Standards and Practices seemed to come up with almost every other question. I can't remember what was asked, but RT said that S&P had an issue with Veronica drinking a glass of wine with Christmas dinner in "One Angry Veronica," so when Keith asked her if she was drinking wine, she just said "no" and they had a bottle of grape juice on the counter in the background. RT doesn't understand how the scenes at Shelly's party could show kids drinking and doing drugs with abandon, but if they showed that Veronica drank one glass of wine in Keith's presence, that would not be allowed because "Keith would be a bad parent." RT finds it baffling and doesn't think most of America would be offended by an 18-year-old girl having one glass of wine with dinner at home with her father.


Q: Do you perceive Veronica to be a totally different person this season? She seems to be written differently this year.

RT: I don't see Veronica as being written differently necessarily, but she's definitely in a different place this year than she was last year. She isn't the social outcast she was last year and she has a billionaire 09er boyfriend so of course she's going to react to things differently. Plus, the mysteries that are driving the story this year affect her in different ways so she's not going to be stagnant, she's reacting to what's going on around her.


Q: For RT, what are your noir influences?

RT: I've only read Raymond Chandler, so that would be it in terms of books. But I've seen a lot of noir movies [and listed some]. JD mentioned Chinatown.


Q: Someone asked how RT came up with the names Dick and Beaver, or just commented on the names.

RT: Well, we had Dick, but we couldn't get away with calling Big Dick "Big Dick." Again, Standards and Practices didn't allow that. But they allowed the line "Can Dick and Beaver come out to play?" That's all they gave us, so we couldn't say "Big Dick," except that I think we do get to call him that in an upcoming episode.


Q: Why does Veronica even speak to Dick this year? He was an almost-rapist last year, and now she acts like she doesn't even remember all the stuff that happened in "A Trip to the Dentist."

RT: Well, first, let's remember that everything that happened in ATttD is sort of hazy and nobody's memory can really be trusted fully on what happened that night. So Veronica can't really be sure of exactly what Dick said or did. Plus, it's not as if she likes him. I mean, I wouldn't want my daughter dating Dick, but that doesn't mean he can't serve some sort of purpose, and he is funny.

RT talked about how Ryan Hansen was originally cast out of San Diego as a glorified extra with just one line in "Credit Where Credit's Due" -- "Logan!" [RT mimiced this line quite hilariously.] But every time they needed a random 09er pal of Logan, they'd say, "Where's that blond kid?" And Ryan would continue to do a good job on his lines. RT talked about how the casting in San Diego is usually only for very minor roles because most people in Southern California who are interested in acting are living in L.A., but Ryan was one of the few people cast in SD who grew to have a substantial role, until he he grew into the Dick we all love (or don't) today.


Q: Will we see more of Beaver and Mac in the season?

RT: Yes.


Q: Are the physical mannerisms of the characters something written into the script, or is it something the actors bring on their own? Like Veronica's head tilt, for example.

KB: Well, I can tell you that all actors have tics, and sometimes the writers will notice them and write them in, like the head tilt. That was written into the script, when Weevil comments on it, but that's because it was probably was an unconscious tic that I was doing without realizing it.

Both KB and JD talking: "What was the line? If I did the head tilt, I'd own you?" [Crowd chiming in: "Be glad I didn't flip my hair, I'd own you!"] Oh, right! Okay, then. [Laughter.]

At some point, either RT or JD mentioned that JD came up with the wind blowing hand gestures in the "Annoy, tiny blonde one" scene, but I'm not sure if it was in response to this question or not. There were several mentions of gestures that JD does as Logan, and almost all of them seemed to be stuff Jason came up with on his own. (Like the shocker, for example.)


Q: For KB, which of your characters that you've portrayed is most like your personality in real life?

KB: Well, I'm pretty gullible, so I'm sort of like Mary Lane (from Reefer Madness) in that way, but I also speak my mind and when I have an opinion you can't get me to shut up, so in that way, I'm like Veronica. So I'm a little of both.


Q: Why doesn't Veronica stand up to Duncan? He pulls so much stuff, and why doesn't she call him on anything he does??!! [Takes out the list of Duncan's crimes and reads.]

RT: You have a list? [Surprised] I know that the bad boy is always sexier, but I don't think I agree that what Duncan has done is all that bad. I see him as basically a good guy trying to do the right thing -- [at this point, he was interrupted, and I'm not sure what all was said].

KB: [Trying to help RT]: I think Duncan has also shown a lot of compassion to Veronica when nobody else did, and maybe you aren't seeing everything he does for her onscreen [interrupted].

RT: Okay, well I get that not get that not everyone is going to like him, but I just see it differently. (Paraphrasing.)


Q: For the actors, what scene has been your favorite to act in and why?

KB: Any scene I get to act with Rico in, because we get along so well offscreen and I just love acting with him. He's the greatest. (Agreement from JD and MM.)

JD: The scene from "You Think You Know Somebody" when I am talking to Veronica at the lockers and she is accusing me of being involved with the whole drug thing. I like any scene when I get to act alone with Kristen, because we were just trying to one-up each other, like "I'm a better actor than you," and that scene was fun.

MM: The end scene from "Nobody Puts Baby in a Corner," when that "Run" song was playing, when Lamb lets Veronica and Duncan out of the squad car, because Lamb showed that he is more than just a big dick and there is more going on with him.


Q: Would you reather eat a small piece of poo or be covered in poo?

RT: Covered in poo.

KB: Covered in poo.

JD: Covered in poo.

MM: Well, if the small piece of poo was covered in chocolate, I would eat it.


Q: I know you sometimes read the TwoP boards for fan reactions after an episode airs. How much does fan reaction affect the direction you take the show?

RT: Honestly, not that much. We have a large lead time in writing the episodes, so by the time an episode airs, we are writing several episodes ahead so the plans are in motion and that ship has probably sailed. And we tend to have a pretty good idea of what the fan reaction is going to be to any particular episode anyway. It's rare that fan reaction is a surprise to us. Although I will say that the fan reaction to episode 2.08 ("Ahoy Mateys") was sort of a surprise because people were saying, "this was a pretty good filler episode," and I was like, "filler episode?" So much happens in that episode! Veronica gets threatened, Logan has a gun, he gets kidnaped, what filler?

RT: But in general, we do like to be aware of the very general fan reaction when people have an overwhelming positive or negative response to something. Lately, I tend to check out the first 20 pages of comments or so after the episode has aired on the East Coast, just to get a very general sense of the reaction. And sometimes, I just don't agree with the general reaction, and we are going to make the show we want to make. (And yes, I care about the opinions of fans on the West Coast, but that's when I'm watching the show.)

RT: For example, I was surprised that a lot of people didn't seem to like Leo last year (many cheers for Leo!), but I think people didn't want to see Veronica with anyone other than one of our established characters. I liked the actor and what he brought to the show, and I basically ignored the reaction. I also am surprised at some of the moralistic attitudes about dating from some of the fans. Some people were upset that there was the slightest overlap with Leo and Logan, and it was like, she'd only gone on a few dates with Leo, they weren't engaged! It's as if Veronica goes on one date, she's not allowed to look at anyone else. [This was all said very jokingly. RT was more amused by the reaction than anything, imho.]

KB: Yeah, not unless they're going steady or something. I think Veronica should have has many, many boyfriends as possible! [Said with a smile.] Don't be a hater! [She may have said that in response to a Duncan question, but I can't remember which one. But it was cute.]

RT: On the other hand, I've seen a lot of complaints this season that Veronica doesn't seem to be as actively engaged in solving the bus crash mystery as she should be, and I actually agree with that and so we're trying to make some changes in that respect.

RT: I also know everybody hates Jackie right now, but that's okay. We have a plan! We know where we're going. [Chuckles.] One thing that has struck me, though, again, is how moralistic a lot of the complaints are about Jackie showing up at Java the Hut with that other dude. I mean, she only went out with Wallace once or twice, they're not engaged! [Chuckles.] I thought Veronica was being sort of mean to her, but everybody sided with Veronica and turned on Jackie, and I didn't really see that coming. Or let me say that I didn't expect the Jackie hate to be quite so strong. But I know it's mostly that everyone loves Wallace. (Crowd seems to agree and claps for Wallace.) (Major paraphrasing here because this discussion was lengthy. RT also praised Tessa Thompson.)


Q: I'm not sure what the question was, but the subject of Veronica and Duncan's sex life came up.

RT said that he knows that the fans think that Veronica and Duncan don't have much of a sex life, but that was not their intention to create that impression. KB ad-libbed the spitting and football line in Veronica and Duncan's sex scene and they left it in because they thought it was funny. RT thinks they have a normal, teenage relationship. KB said "Yeah, what's wrong with that, YOU PERVS!" (Paraphrasing here. Their reaction was funny, but RT did sort of sidestep the issue that V/L were shown in all these passionate embraces in just a single episode last year, when V/D were never shown as exhibiting any sort of passion at all over ten episodes this season. Imho.)


Q: For KB, what happened to the dog you rescued that you were trying to find a home for? (Which she talked about when she was on Punk'd.)

KB: Oh, right, Punk'd. When my ASSHOLE BOYFRIEND set me up for a punking -- that's right, I'm talking about you -- [looking at her boyfriend Kevin sitting in the audience]. Anyway . . . we found the dog's owner and he's back with him now, but the dog wasn't being taken care of very well, so we're still a little worried about him. But now we've also adopted a black Lab who was a victim of Hurricane Katrina, so I think now we are at the Los Angeles legal limit and can't take any more.

Somewhere around this time someone at the far left asked RT to move back so she could see JD and MM better, and RT did his best GOB Bluth impersonation. "You want the guy in the $8,000 suit to move??!!! Come ON!" [Seriously, the Arrested Development jokes were flying fast at this point, and if you aren't watching AD, you should be. Speaking of which . . . oh, right, I promised not to reveal casting spoilers. I'm sure most people know by now that RT made a big casting spoiler announcement, which was met with much rejoicing.]


Q: For JD, how does your wife feel about you becoming a sex symbol?

JD: Well, you can ask her, she's sitting right back there. [Jason's wife Lauren was sitting near Kristen's boyfriend Kevin in the audience.] Really, it's no big deal. I don't even think about that stuff. (Or something to that effect, I think he just brushed it off.)


Q: Whose idea was it to use "the shocker" in the season two premiere?

JD said something about the script having a reference to a generic fist bump, but he decided to sneak in "the shocker" because he thought it would be something Logan would do.

JD: Because at that point, the audience thinks he's referring to Veronica, but he's really referring to Kendall, so that would be something he'd do, because it's Kendall. Plus, nobody knew what it meant.

RT: *I* knew what it meant! [Lots of laughter.]

Unbeknownst to RT, JD did it in every take, so they were stuck with it in the editing room. RT only hoped they would get it past the censors, and of course they did. (Heck, I didn't know what it was, so it's not that surprising. I'm sure the censors have a few years on me. And if you don't know what I'm talking about, uh, Google it.)


[This is where the Saturday questions end and the Sunday questions begin. But the question about whether RT changes the direction of the show based on fan reactions was asked both nights and there is a lot of overlap in some of the responses. The Q&A went on quite a bit longer on Saturday night and RT & Co. were signing autographs and chatting with fans until well past midnight. They didn't have as much time on Sunday night and asked that nobody get in the autograph line if they got an autograph on Saturday because they all had flights very early on Monday morning.]


Q: Will Wallace and Logan ever have a scene together?

RT: Yes. It may not happen until season three, but we will try to get them together in a scene at some point. When I worked on Dawson's Creek, there was that "hurricane episode" when all the characters were thrown together in one room for an entire night, and when a show does that, it's to save money. One set, all the actors in one place, no exterior location shooting, so it's cheap. Someday we will have our "hurricane" episode, although it probably won't be a hurricane.


Q: Are you worried about making the transition in the third season from high school to college, because most shows set in high school struggle with that?

RT: I don't see VM as a "high school show," so I'm not worried about that. I see VM as a detective show first and foremost, and she just happens to be in high school now. But the first season she was a junior, so I always envisioned it as two years in high school, and she's out. I think the show will actually work just as well or even better in college, and I don't want Kristen to be 35 and playing a high school student. [KB has a look of horror. "35??!!"]


Q: Do you plan to ever have a musical episode, like Buffy did?

RT: I always thought if we jumped the shark, that's what we might do. And I don't mean that's what Buffy did at all, because I haven't seen that episode, but when we cast the actors, we asked all the guys if they could sing and they all said "NO." So Kristen is the only singer we have. [The crowd chimes in, "but Percy sang!"] RT said that he thought Percy did a good job with "Papa Was a Rolling Stone," but when they asked him last year if he could sing, he said "no." But we'll try to have Kristen sing again at some point, maybe.


Q: Why do you feel the need for fan interaction at all? Do you ever regret getting so involved with the fan reactions? (Funny question, coming from .)

RT: As our producer Dan Etheridge has said before, reading the TwoP boards after an episode is like being overwhelmed by a tidal wave of love, and then getting cut by a million paper cuts. Sure, it can be painful. It can be quite painful sometimes. I can tell you, just as an example, that I didn't check the fan reaction after episode 2.10 ("One Angry Veronica"). I know we ended up having too much exposition packed into that episode, and what we were trying to do just didn't work.

KB: I love having fans that are so passionate and devoted to the show that they care so much. I would rather have three million rabid fans than thirty million that just watch and don't really care.

JD: I love that the fans notice every little detail. It makes us work that much harder, because we know people out there are noticing the smallest little thing. And when people say something negative, it only hurts when it's true.


Q: For the actors: Do you ever want to change a line or something else in the script that just doesn't seem right to you for your character?

KB: I can think of maybe only twice when that's happened. We have really good communication with Rob and the other writers, so it's not a problem for me to speak up when I don't think a line is working or something like that.

RT: Kristen has complained about a line so seldom, that if she really has a problem with a particular line, I'm going to listen to her.

JD: If I have a problem with something, I try to think of a way to make it work. How can I put a twist on it, or do something different that will make it work for my character? So it's not usually a problem.


Q: For RT, what's with all the mythology references? You were in a band Hey Zeus, you had a show Cupid, and now you have Veronica MARS who lives in NEPTUNE, California.

RT: Seriously, it's a coincidence. I have no particular interest in mythology, I really don't. [KB rolls her eyes and shakes her head.] Mars is the name of the drummer for The Replacements. I came up with Neptune because I was thinking of Jupiter, Florida, and trying to think of something that sounded right for California. I actually know less about mythology than the average person, I would say.

KB: Yeah, right. That's the story he told me, too, but I'm not buying it. [Shakes head.]


Q: For RT, would you ever want to get Joss Whedon to write an episode of VM?

RT: It wouldn't work like that, because we are on two totally different levels. He's a big movie writer now, up here (high) and I'm down here (low). He would have to be the one to ask me to write something for him.

But speaking of movies, Diane Ruggiero and I have written a feature script for Joel Silver which is sort of a remake of a movie called The Last of Sheila, which is a murder mystery out at sea. They are talking about Lindsey Lohan for the lead. (The crowd groans.) But I've written roles that would be perfect for Kristen Bell and Jason Dohring and their characters have a steamy sex scene. (Laughter and applause: Crowd is pleased, actors look embarrassed.)

RT goes on to describe said sex scene, with something about KB's character lying naked on a bed and JD's character walks in. She says "I've learned some new tricks since college," and he replies, "so long as one of them is roll over." I'm sure I'm getting this all wrong, but it seemed to me like RT was just trying to embarrass KB by describing the alleged "sex scene," and it seemed to work. (Again, crowd is amused, actors are more embarrassed.)


Q: Are Veronica and Logan ever going to get back together?

RT: Yes, in season five. Remember Moonlighting? You can't get people together too soon. [He was chuckling and being a bit facetious here.] In the meantime, Veronica and Duncan needed to revisit their relationship and let that play out. (I'm paraphrasing, but imho, he sounded like he knows very much that the majority of the audience wants V/L to reconcile at some point, and all the writers are well aware of their chemistry.)


Q: For RT, what has been the most challenging scene to write?

RT: I hate writing what I call "emotional exposition," which is what happens on every WB show, and I used to write for a WB show, so I know what I'm talking about. "Oh, you betrayed me, and this is how you made me feel and now I don't know if I can trust you, yadda yadda yadda." I prefer letting my characters deflect their emotions and express their feelings through their actions. So I find the straightforward emotional scenes like the Veronica and Duncan scene in "A Trip to the Dentist," for example, the most difficult to write, when they can't deflect any more.


Q: When will Duncan and Logan wear different colors?

JD: I think they kept us in different colors so people could tell us apart at the beginning.

RT: I just think Logan is clearly an autumn. Seriously, I know you guys are hard core fans, but sometimes we do have to do things to make things easier for the new fans, and that's where it gets annoying for you guys. Like when Celeste enters a scene and there is some line like, "Hello, Celeste, mother of Veronica's boyfriend Duncan and mother of her dead best friend Lilly," I know it sounds dumb to you guys but that's the kind of thing we have to do to make it a little easier for new fans of the show to understand what is going on.


Q: How do you find writers for the show?

RT: We have a very small writing staff. There are only five of us (I think?), and on a show like Lost, they have like 20 writers on staff or something like that. With Diane Ruggiero, I had read a script she had written a few years before that never got made and I knew if I got my own show, I'd want her on the staff with me. Basically, when you're a showrunner trying to staff a show, agents send you hundreds of scripts that you've got to read through and you are looking for someone who has that distinctive voice that sounds like they might be able to write in Veronica's voice, or the voice you are looking for. Obviously we are looking for people who can write witty stuff, so it's a similar sort of characterization and wit that I'm looking for when I read somebody's sample script. (Major paraphrasing here.)

Saturday, January 21, 2006

Veronica Marsathon, Part I

So in case you haven't heard, last weekend there was this awesome Veronica Mars event in Austin at the Alamo Drafthouse (click for photos). Okay, so it wasn't technically a "Marsathon" (it had the Mars, but not so much the thon), but still. Good times.

I'm not going to give a personal recap of my entire weekend, like who I met and what I ate (and drank), but I'm happy to share the details of the actual, you know, Veronica Mars stuff. Like what Rob Thomas said. And how cute Kristen Bell and Jason Dohring are. (Very.) And how shy and reserved Michael Muhney is. (Not at all.)

This is long, so it will be broken up into at least two parts. And there are NO spoilers for 2.11, other than the episode title. There are spoilers for all of season one, obviously, and a little bit for season two, up to episode 2.10.

I went to the "Marsathon" both nights - Saturday and Sunday. I tried to take notes on Sunday, but it was really hard to keep up with everything, so I'm sure I missed a lot.

The agenda was basically the same on both nights. First, there were a few songs by a band featured on VM: Saturday night was The Fire Marshals of Bethlehem and Sunday was the Daylight Titans. Henri of the Drafthouse introduced the VM VIPs with his best faux-fan squealing: "OhmyGOD! You Guys!! I can hardly believe it! I'm so excited!!" Then he introduced Rob Thomas and the cast, to wild applause.

On Saturday night, RT was accompanied by Kristen Bell, Jason Dohring and Michael Muhney, but Michael was not there on Sunday night because he had to head back to San Diego to shoot some scenes early on Monday. Enrico Colantoni was also scheduled to attend, but had to bow out because he was suffering from bronchitis. KB and the cast seemed genuinely upset that EC wasn't there and talked about how great he was and how much fun he'd be if he were there. On Sunday, RT asked for a show of hands of who had been there the night before, and they looked pretty stunned to find out that a lot of people attended both nights. RT said we were going to hear most of the same stuff we had already heard from the night before, but I don't think that bothered anyone.

RT selected his favorite clips from the first season, and had prepared some brief comments to introduce each clip. He showed a couple of "bonus" clips on Sunday that he didn't show on Saturday but for the most part they were the same. On Saturday, it was the clips, followed by a screening of episode 2.11 "Donut Run," and then last but not least, the Q&A. On Sunday, they were more pressed for time because the cast had to catch very early morning flights, so they showed the clips, then had a shorter Q&A, and then showed the new episode.

Episode 2.11 was written and directed by RT, and it's his directing debut on the show, so I think he was pretty proud of it. I enjoyed it, but that's all I will say out of respect for spoilerphobes (there are only four more days to go, so try to hold out). I actually enjoyed it even more on Sunday than I did on Saturday, because there was a lot I missed the first time. Lots of stuff happens.

Because RT's comments were mostly the same on both nights, I'm going to combine the comments from both Sat and Sun into this report. I'm also going to list all the Q&A together (that I remember), because there was some overlap in the questions as well. Plus, I'm sure I'm going to mix up questions from both nights, so this will just be one big recap of the whole event.

The Clips: Season One Highlights

RT introduced the clips by explaining that originally they were planning to have a true "Marsathon," showing all 22 episodes from season one (16 hours of Mars). But Warner Brothers put the kibosh on that for legal reasons. (Boo, hiss.) So they had to go with highlight clips, but the only people that could be featured were the "main" cast, due to SAG union rules. So that means that the clips could only be of Veronica, Keith, Wallace, Logan, Duncan, and Weevil. That's what he said, but Dick managed to make an appearance and so did Backup. (And one other person very briefly, but we all dutifully covered our eyes as we were asked, so as not to violate SAG rules. ::cough::)

RT and the cast were sitting in chairs directly to the right of the screen. When the clips were shown, the lights would go down and KB, JD, and MM would sit on the floor in front of their chairs and watch. They would frequently whisper to each other or kid each other about some of the clips and laugh. They obviously get along very well with each other and RT. In fact, KB even heckled RT and rolled her eyes at his comments quite a bit, and interrupted him a few times, like the smartass kid in the back of class. JD was more quiet and tended not to speak up unless he was asked a question, although he talked to both KB and MM a lot. MM also interacted with fans. He really needs to come out of his shell, that guy. All in all, the mood was very light and relaxed, especially on Sunday, and there was a lot of joking back and forth between RT & co. and the audience.

Anyway . . . RT explained that UPN is basically owned by CBS, and thus the head of CBS, Les Moonves, is also the Grand Poobah over UPN. When you get a note from Les Moonves that says jump, you ask "how high?" And so it goes. When RT first made the Pilot, the original "cold open" (opening scene before the credits) was the scene with Veronica in the LeBaron in front of the Camelot Motel, staking out the cheating husband, with her calculus book beside her on the front seat. But when the suits saw the first cut of the Pilot, the note came back from on high: "This is a high school show. Start at the high school."

1. "I'm never getting married. You want an absolute? Well, there it is. Veronica Mars . . . spinster. I mean, what's the point? . . ." Weevil and the PCH gang approaches. "This can't be good."

Trivia: RT choreographed the love scene shown in silhouette behind the curtains, after complaining to the director that it didn't look like the extras were having sex. He also created the background music on Garage Band. KB hated her haircut in the Pilot.

So the original cold open was scrapped and moved to later in the episode. That's why the Pilot starts with Veronica driving into the parking lot of Neptune High. RT wasn't thrilled with the "clunky" opening Veronica voiceover (VMVO) "This is my school. If you go here, your parents are either millionaires or your parents work for millionaires." But that's that. Because it's a high school show and you gotta start at the high school.

RT talked a lot about having a lot of arguments, er, discussions, with UPN over the first 5-6 episodes. The original script (available for download on RT's website) was very dark and the network had a lot of issues with it. The main problem is Veronica's status as a "date rape victim." UPN was not thrilled with that at all.

KB's audition scene was when she tells off Weevil and the biker gang (I took this to mean the scene at Neptune High when she says, "I'm on a schedule here, vato.") When KB nailed that scene, RT knew she could do "smart" and "tough," which was obviously important for Veronica. But when she nailed the "morning after" scene when Veronica wakes up at Shelly's party, he knew he had found a star. (KB looked sheepish.) RT remarked that she could cry on cue, take after take. "I'm a robot!" KB joked.

Unfortunately, UPN was not so keen on the "morning after" scene and kept making it shorter and shorter. Originally there were more shots of the vandalism to the LeBaron (a slashed tire, "Abel, it should have been her"), but most of the scene was cut. So RT wanted to show the scene in its original uncut version, which is not even available on the DVD.

2. "You wanna know how I lost my virginity? So do I. . . . I never told my dad. I’m not sure what he would have done with that information but no good would have come of it. And what does it matter. I’m no longer that girl."

This clip is indeed much longer than the one we saw in the Pilot, and KB is fantastic. I'm not sure why they couldn't put the entire original uncut version on the DVD.

RT talked more about the changes UPN made in the Pilot, and at one point, the network decided to test his version and their version, so RT put in deliberately "clunky" voiceovers in the network version, with the intention of cutting them later. Guess which version tested better? The network version, clunky voiceovers and all. Unfortunately, UPN sent out some screeners of the Pilot to critics with the clunky voiceovers before RT had a chance to make the cuts and the L.A. Times criticized the lousy VMVO. (There was a line saying something like "And that's when my private detective senses got the better of me," or some other clunker like that, which was obviously cut.) The Times also criticized the VMVO "I'm no longer that girl," but RT likes that line. (The crowd agrees with RT that it's a good line. It encapsulates a major theme of the whole season.)

The next clip is just funny (from 1.03 "Meet John Smith").

3. "How was your date?"
"Oh you know. Lousy conversation, but the sex was fantastic."
"That's not funny."
"I don't know. I'm pretty sure it was."


On the Friday before the Marsathon, RT and KB attended the AFI Awards luncheon in Beverly Hills. Lots of Hollywood bigwigs were there, Clooney, Spielberg. They showed clips from each of the Top Ten honored TV shows (the AFI doesn't rank them), and every show had some big dramatic "award worthy" moment. The clip shown from VM was Veronica telling off "snausage boy" in "Hot Dogs." UPN selected the clip, but RT would have preferred the scene from "You Think You Know Somebody" when Veronica confronts Keith about finding Lianne.

4. "You can find anybody! If she were a criminal, you'd make a couple grand tracking her down and you'd have her back in a week."
"Well, maybe I don't care to find her. Have you ever considered that?"


(That scene is a personal favorite of mine, and I agree that KB and EC hit it out of the park.)

The next clip was chosen because RT said it's one of his favorite line deliveries ever by JD. The audience seemed to agree.

5. "Never. Underestimate. The size of my cojones."

JD gave a nice visual aid here as punctuation.

At one point, RT called Weevil "the yin to Logan's yang," and talked about how the writers do "back flips" trying to think of ways to put Logan and Weevil in scenes together. So they went with the old John Hughes high school standby, detention.

Next up, the infamous shredding scene. RT said he knew a lot of fans were unhappy when Veronica shredded the paternity test results at the end of "Drinking the Kool-Aid," but it was an homage to an old Spider-Man comic that RT read as a kid. Peter Parker doesn't know if he's Spider-Man or a clone, and after he offs the "other" Spider-Man, he is standing on a, what's the word, a chimney stack? [KB: "I think it's called a chimney, Rob."] Oh. [Sunday night Rob realizes the word he's looking for is "smokestack," which he says loudly in KB's direction.] So Peter is standing up on the rooftop next to a smokestack and he's holding the paper that tells him whether he's the clone, and he throws the paper down the smokestack because he decides he'd rather not know. That always stuck with RT and he thought it was cool, that *not* knowing is sometimes the right decision.

6. "Honey, I don't mean to ask a silly question but is, is it really necessary that you do that right now?"
"Yeah. As a matter of fact it is."


The next clip is another of RT's favorite line deliveries, this one from Francis Capra in "An Echolls Family Christmas." He again talked about how the writers try to come up with ways to get Logan and Weevil in as many scenes together. "Can Weevil play poker with the white boys? In the hands of a very talented writer, sure he can!" Heh.

7. "We don't take food stamps."
"Ouch! You got me!"


FC came up with that "surfer dude" delivery on his own and everybody on set thought it was pretty funny.

Moving on to Veronica and Logan . . . RT said that there was absolutely *no* intention to have Logan as a romantic interest for Veronica early on, and that Logan was purely intended to be the villain, Veronica's arch-nemesis. But gradually the writers began to see the obvious chemistry after just a few episodes and agreed that a V/L pairing seemed to be inevitable. The next clip is one scene that cemented that decision. (Actually, there are two separate V/L scenes, separated by a flashback edited out because of those annoying guest stars that can't be shown.)

8. "I love the smell of testosterone in the morning."
"This is why I suggested attack dogs. But no, my mother wanted an alpaca."
(This line got a big laugh, and RT and co. looked confused, not understanding the fan enthusiasm for the Echolls alpaca.)

9. "Annoy, tiny blonde one. Annoy like the wind!"

(As an aside here, Jason Dohring has said in an interview with the Chicago Tribune that RT told him around episode six or seven that the writers were going to put Veronica and Logan together later in the season. So they obviously knew well before "An Echolls Family Christmas" scene was filmed, because it's only the next episode -- in production order -- that Lynn goes over the bridge at the end of "Clash of the Tritons," and RT has said previously that Lynn was killed off in part to give Logan a reason to ask for Veronica's help and to make him more sympathetic as a romantic interest. But there's no doubt that the "Annoy tiny blonde one" scene has serious undercurrents of something other than pure hostility, so I guess that scene just told the writers they had made the right decision that V/L would work as a romantic pairing.)

The next clip was originally written for the Pilot, but was cut and added later to "Mars vs. Mars." It's the scene when Veronica thinks she's outsmarted Keith by cracking the code to his safe.

10. "Tell me where to put your father-of-the-year trophy. 'Cause there's some place I'd like to put it!"
"Honey, you don't have to get all blue in the face."
"You're patronizing me?
"To be fair, I am your patron."


Now we get to one of the running themes of the evening: trying to get dirty stuff past the censors. RT mentioned again that UPN had a lot of concerns over the first 5 or 6 episodes, but after that, the notes stopped coming and UPN trusted him to do the show he wanted to do. Now the main conflicts are with Standards and Practices, which apparently comes under the CBS umbrella. "If we were on Fox, we could get away with anything! But not CBS, not after the infamous Janet Jackson nipplegate, anyway."

RT told a story from Cupid about the line "Let's get some flesh-and-bone women." It got past the ABC censors, but of course when Jeremy Piven delivered the line it was, "Let's get some flesh, and bone women!" RT considers that one of his prouder accomplishments.

In VM, it's an ongoing battle every week, but luckily, the censors are apparently looking for the "dirty words" and as long as they avoid those words, they seem to get away with a lot. The next clip from "Mars vs. Mars" is RT's favorite "I can't believe we got this past the censors" moment from VM.

11. "So you got a trophy for a rim job?"

The next clip from "Weapons of Class Destruction" needed no introduction.

12. Veronica. Logan. The Camelot Motel. THE KISS.

The crowd applauded politely. (As if.)

To everyone's surprise, RT said that he wasn't quite happy with the way that scene played out. JD pointed to himself, taking the blame. RT said that the kiss came across as "sweet," when that wasn't what he was going for. [JD: "The word you used was 'devoured.'"] But RT said that the devouring came later in the bathroom scene, so it all worked out in the end.

Next up is RT's nod to the VM Art Department. He joked that on Alias they are going "around the world" every week, but it doesn't happen often on VM. But when the Art Department had to create Havana, Cuba in "A Trip to the Dentist," he thought they did a pretty good job.

13. "Of all the countries under military dictatorship in all the world."

Wow, doesn't San Diego look like Cuba?

RT mentioned that "A Trip to the Dentist" was his favorite episode, and it was written by the fabulous Diane Ruggiero. (Enthusiastic applause!) The next scene is another Logan/Weevil confrontation.

14. "You think she had any real interest in you? You're a pork rind. You're what people grab when they're stoned and just want garbage."
"What makes it worse? Thinking she had feelings for me, or that she was using me for sex?"


HoYay! [I think RT even said "HoYay!" after this one. He definitely laughed when a lot of people shouted it.] JD seemed to be amused and to take it in stride, but RT said that FC was less amused by the "HoYay" remarks.

The next scene is the V/L scene when Logan comes to her door to find out why she's been avoiding him.

15. "Excuse me. I have to go throw up now."

RT said he knows that a lot of people have been hard on Teddy Dunn, but he thinks the next clip is TD's best scene. It's the scene when Veronica confronts Duncan about Shelly's party.

16. "Because you're my sister!"

RT says with all due respect to Patricia Arquette, how could the Emmy voters overlook the fantastic performance of KB after a scene like that? Come on! [/GOB Bluth] (KB looks sheepish again, but JD and MM applaud and nod in agreement.)

The next clip RT introduced by saying that the writing is flat-out bad, but he can say that because he wrote it. Somehow, KB and EC are able to take his flat writing and turn it into a pretty great scene, one of the most memorable from all of season one. "But it's all Kristen and Rico." It's the scene when Keith reveals the results of the paternity test to Veronica in "Leave it to Beaver."

17. "Veronica, I am without a doubt your father."

::Sniff::

Last but not least, RT said he argued with Diane Ruggiero about how to end the season. He wanted the cliffhanger of "who's at the door?" but Diane said that it would never work, because after solving the big mysteries, who is going to care who's at Veronica's door? RT said people would care, and he's happy he was right.

18. "I was hoping it would be you."

KB interjected here about wanting to know who was at the door when she filmed the scene: "I needed to know, like what would Veronica be feeling, where is my eyeline, but Rob said he had no idea! He'd figure it out later." RT said, imagine it could be either Logan or Duncan and they're about the same height, so that should be okay for the eyeline. KB said that on every take, different members of the crew would be standing there as a joke, including one guy named Coyote who wears a wolfman mask (or coyote mask? something like that) and they kept making her laugh. RT wanted to make a blooper reel with lots of different guys standing there, like Cliff, Mr. Wu, etc. But alas, apparently that is not to be.

Tuesday, January 10, 2006

VM and Feminism, part 2: It's Academic

Any VM fans out there in the Atlanta area? Apparently I'm not the only one interested in talking about Veronica Mars and feminism, and it's quite the hot topic.

In April the Popular Culture Association will be having its annual conference and, I kid you not, here is one of the lectures:

"We used to be friends": Third-Wave
Feminism and Veronica Mars
Tim Burke, University of South Florida


The conference is at the Atlanta Marriott Marquis and the VM lecture will be on Thursday, April 13. I am actually very interested in attending this, but is this worth taking a day off work to hear some academic wax about VM and feminism? The conference is full of interesting sounding lectures, though. Just scroll through the full Conference Program for more. Buffy, BSG, even Desperate Housewives, you name it, it's all there. Buffy, of course, is very well represented.

If they are giving out Ph.Ds for studies in Buffy and Veronica now, I think it's time for me to head back to school. I definitely made the wrong decision by going to law school.